We spoke about 'liminal spaces' for a bit before we digressed to a whole other topic 'Boy-girl relationships'.
It was so interesting because Steph Tong and I were the only girls. There were 7 other guys, I think. But it feels so good to talk openly about it. I mean, to really hear what the guys thought and them hearing what we thought.
And especially because I've been binging on books on relationships (seriously) and sometimes it's just too much information that it gets confusing. It was refreshing hearing real people talk.
Eventually, there were some ideas that brought up really good discussion.
1. The list (you know, the must-haves and the negotiables) How important is the list? What happens if you meet someone who doesn't meet ALL the points on your list? How do you go about it? What's on the list? And should you bring up the list to your partner?
2. What do girls want? The boys really wanted to know this. I think Steph and I agreed on leadership and guys knowing want they want and where they're headed in life. Leadership and direction, the two main things. We had to explain this to the guys. It was quite funny.
3. The paradox. We also discussed how the 'curse' for women as stated by some books was that they tend to want to dominate in a relationship yet want the guy to step up. Hence, the paradox. One way or the other, something's amiss. But I guess being aware of it helps.
4. The fears. For man- apparently, failure. For women, being unloved...or insecurity. Another interesting discussion which got us telling stories of how those fears have led to destructive states. And it was so interesting to hear guys worrying about getting it 'right' so much so that they're afraid to do something. And girls who worry more about being alone so that they settle for way less that they deserve. And finally saying that that's why they both need God. For guys to find their strengths in God and for girls to first be secure in God.
5. Communicate- Then we highlighted the importance of honesty and communication. Because at the end of the day, even as partners, we live in separate bodies and we need to express ourselves honestly. Why guess when you can ask? When you can just 'say it' and save yourself all that headache. Honesty is the best policy. And alright, one point I got from a book is- where there is no honesty, there is no relationship.
There was so much more but these are the things I remember most.
Ahhh, I love good discussions.
15 comments:
Oh yes, another rare occasion for such a deep discussion led by the spirit... of curiosity. I think the List is so interesting.
But should you bring up the List to your partner? I didn't express this earlier, but I think that would be almost very detrimental on a first date. And maybe more constructive consequently.
I will remember that Stephen's List will write: fart not too smelly.
Indeed. Watch the farts. Especially on the first date. Then again remember the lists gives you the power of elimination.. As highlighted by Lester haha.
Good post Kristy, you actually remembered the bulk of it.. haha well done!
I think one would have to be there for this discussion to be interesting right?
I know why you rarely talk to me about BGR now. Based on the discussion topics, my views are quite skewed. Teehee...
I've gotten my new Bruce. =)
[steven] Eh yeah, the list might actually be constructive. But I guess you really need to discern the best time or whatever.
[stephen] thanks. You're turn to do discussions next time!!!
[jean] Yeah you need to be there la.
Different views cause we believe different things. But must chat soon. I value what you SAY and I value YOU.
How's Brucey? heheh
[jean] wait. even though we adopt different views, I love the fact that we ALWAYS search for 'TRUTH' and we respect each other's journey. :)
Yes we need to chat soon.
Bruce is very nice. He's got a rubber protector so no accidents this time. ;P
I think we must leave room for BBR and GGR in our chat on relationships as well. Heehee...
okay. Can. Always the controversial topic as well. Is there a specific someone? *eyebrow wiggle*
Not anyone you know...hehe. I've moved on.
Wow Kristy, I am impressed that you remembered so much stuffs about our discussion that nite. Were you taking notes?
{Kristy} Well, personally, I think God has prepared someone special for each one of us. So there should be someone specific.:) What do u think? Or do you think 1 size fits many?
[lester] I used to think that there was a 'one' specific person for you. As in ordained especially for you. But I don't know. Now, I'm more open to the possibility of there being more than one person and then just choosing to work it out with one of them.
What do you think?
(Kristy) Honestly, I am not that entirely sure either. Life is a mystery, so is love.
God ultimate intention is for you to be with just one person. So I personally believe that there is just one specific person for each of us.
Guess the next big question to ask will be how do you find out?
Yeah I agree that marriage should be monogamous. But having said that, the reason I say that there isn't a fixed one person is because, sometimes, things happen. Like let's say one of the spouses dies and the other remarries.
How do you find out? Haha, a balance of faith and wisdom and diligence?
(Kristy) Yup, I was thinking of that sceranio before i gave my last reply. Guess in that case, there should be more than 1 specific person. But I believe, when you are with someone else, you wont hope for him/her to die right.....
Haha, yup, i will agree faith, dilligence and wisdom will be necessary. :)
Of course, not hope for that person to die (although, i predict that during the marriage there will be times you will feel that way). ;) Just that sometimes, the worse really does happen.
I'm going to pretend that I'm a pretentious pompous know-it-all expert and answer all the questions!
1. If you have a List you should bring it up straightaway, or subtly ask questions to uncover whether your "target" fits the list. If left to later, either party might experience disappointment or pain, when a certain trait is discovered that breaks the relationship after emotional points have been invested... So, deal-breakers on the List should be declared as early as possible. Knowing what you want is really important, and any guy that is intimidated by that...(nothing to say)
Guys shouldn't be intimidated.
2. Girls want different things, because girls are not all the same. With only two girls I don't think the guys would have gotten a clear picture of what girls want... But a general answer would be... Girls want a guy that knows himself, aware of his strengths and weaknesses, and is confident and honest about it. He does not waver wishy washy but is firm, strong, and flexible...
When people meet someone new, often there is a tendency to "put the best foot forward"... I disagree with this, because humans have two feet... I would rather someone not like me, than be attracted to a false idea of me. This is relevant to the List...
3. There doesn't have to be a dominator and dominated in a relationship. The analogies used to describe relationships such as a Ship, or a Car... where there has to be ONE captain or driver... are examples used to defend the "design of God" where the woman has to submit because the man was naturally created to lead. I think those examples don't work because a relationship is not comparable to a vehicle. A relationship is a relationship.
It comes back to knowing yourself, and now, knowing your other. Discover each others strengths, knowledge, and in each specific situation, there will be one who is more able to lead than the other. Dominance is decided case-by-case, based on who is more suited to lead. Gender rarely plays a role in this...
4. Fears? Guys finding strength in God...
Once I thought that I didn't need God, because... I didn't seem to need Him... I was quite worried at my pride and lack of humility... One day I realized, EVERYTHING I have, EVERYTHING I am, was given and created by God. All I am. Saying that I don't need God is like saying I don't need air. We take for granted some things that we've always had... After realizing this, I now have no reason to be proud in myself, because I am nothing, and God is everything...If you think about it you will realize the same thing...
5. Bring out the List...
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